I have read and I think that I understand the constitution and By-laws. I think that it is a great starting point for the D.O.G ALR. I do have a few questions regarding the distribution of funds. But I think that overall this is a strong document which will get us off to a good start at the state level and addresses many of the questions that always surround any organization that has a large membership from a very diverse population. Good job Pat I know that you have been working on this document for many months.
We really cherish this website. Wewish I could come here all the time. Please do keep on putting up more information!
Does your site have a contact page? I’m having a tough time locating it but, I’d like to shoot you an e-mail. I’ve got some creative ideas for your blog you might be interested in hearing. Either way, great blog and I look forward to seeing it improve over time.
;“ I am really thankful to this topic because it really gives useful information “.*
This post does a excellent job presenting this idea. My buddy will appreciate it.
I’m a SAL member, currently serving as chaplain. Also the current Vice President of my post’s ALR. Why do the new state bylaws / constitution not recognize that the ALR is made up of members of the legion family and should be lead by its members, The ALR and the SAL are both “Programs” of the Legion…so I can be Commander of My SAL squadron and not be a Leader in my ALR?…Don’t forget who the majority of the ALR is
I joined my post to serve Veterans, Community and Children. I Am a Proud American Patriot
P.S. the SAL and ALR don’t handle Legion Money
Thanks
For God and Country
Jim Tully
VP ALR Post 111 Dallas, Ga.
Good post Ironbutt.
I was rereading the new version of the Constitution and bylaws and I found two things that might have been over looked. These were things that I thought were changed at the November meeting.
Two things in the Constitution under Membership, Section 4 I thought it was changed from:
Section 4. In addition to sections 1-3 above, members must be the legally registered owner of a motorcycle “two (2) wheeled” and/or trike “three (3) wheeled” or, are the spouse and/or (children, grandchildren, under 18 years of age) of the legally registered owner within the state of registration.
To
Section 4. In addition to sections 1-3 above, members must be the legally registered owner of a motorcycle “two (2) wheeled” and/or trike “three (3) wheeled” or, are the spouse of the legally registered owner within the state of registration.
Also,
I thought there were provisions put into the constitution and bylaws to allow for a spouse of a deceased member to maintain their membership?
Thats right good folks Im finally out of the darkages! Went back and read all the blogs from rockers to bylaws,good stuff keep talking thats what we need. Now Im going to go out on a lledge here, had we had all these lines of como before some of those issues would have been handled early on and we wouldnt have these right way wrong way my way problems. I ve been with the AlR from the beginning here in Ga and have gone alot of miles for her, sure would like to see it get bigger and stronger . We all know it was created backwards with small units developing thier own SOPs and running with it,now higher wants to come in and add thier input,that never went well then either.But it happends and we moved on and won the big battle.Im not going to say I was right or wrong the way we did it, but I will say what ever it takes to make us a team one unit Im for it , been out there tooo long on my own!
Why is the Flag patch backwards on Military Uniforms?
Following is a quote from the Department of Defense website…
Thank you for you inquiry about the proper placement of the American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.
Army Regulation 670-1 “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia” Updated most recently Sept. 5, 2003 addresses explicitly the proper and lawful placement of the U.S. Flag patch on the Army uniform.
The regulation states that when the authorized for application to the proper uniform the American Flag patch is to be worn right or left shoulder, so that the star field faces forward or to the flags own right. When worn in the manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the revers side flag.
On the Gold Fringe I found this:
from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives…
“The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun.”
The quote below concerning gold fringe on the Flag is from the book “So Proudly We Hail, The History of the United States Flag” Smithsonian Institute Press 1981, by Wiliam R. Furlong and Byron McCandless. “The placing of a fringe on Our Flag is optional with the person of organization, and no Act of Congress or Executive Order either prohibits the practice, according to the Institute of Hearaldry. Fringe is used on indoor flags only, as fringe on flags on outdoor flags would deteriorate rapidly. The fringe on a Flag is considered and ‘honorable enrichment only’, and its official use by the US Army dates from 1895.. A 1925 Attorney General’s Opinion states: ‘the fringe does not appear to be regarded as an integral part of the Flag, and its presence cannot be said to constitute an unauthorized addition to the design prescribed by statute. An external fringe is to be distinguished from letters, words, or emblematic designs printed or superimposed upon the body of the flag itself. Under law, such additions might be open to objection as unauthorized; but the same is not necessarily true of the fringe.’”
The gold trim is generally used on ceremonial indoor flags that are used for special services and is believed to have been first used in a military setting. It has no specific significance that I have ever run across, and its (gold trim) use is in compliance with applicable flag codes and laws.
Web sites for both:
http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html
http://www.usflag.org/colors.html
Further reference:
http://www1.va.gov/opa/feature/celebrate/flagdisp.asp
Sorry, dropped the stapler on the keyboard.
A little research about the flag reveled the below information:
Why is the Flag patch “backwards” on Military uniforms?
Following is a quote from the Department of Defense website…
“Thank you for your inquiry about the proper placement of the American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.
Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.
The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.”
We appreciate and share your concern for the respectful display of our American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.”
For more information on Army Regulation 670-1 please visit the following web site, http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf
sdf
I found this too:
A little research about the flag reveled the below information:
Why is the Flag patch “backwards” on Military uniforms?
Following is a quote from the Department of Defense website…
“Thank you for your inquiry about the proper placement of the American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.
Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.
The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.”
We appreciate and share your concern for the respectful display of our American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.”
For more information on Army Regulation 670-1 please visit the following web site, http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf
taxi said:
“I can’t seem to find anything that describes it’s borders though”.
That’s a good obervation taxi, and information “is” hard to find.
Some time ago when I 1st heard this, I researched extensively to locate any origin material. Generally, President Eisenhower and the 86th congress seated in 1959, during the delibrations to consider the addition of the stars for the states of Hawaii and Alaska, to bring the flag to 50 stars, resolved to make the necessary modifications to the flag.
Therein was where the below text was written. IIRC the text was an addendum to executive order 10834 which repealed EO 10798.
I am searching for some additional references for you, I’m sure I have them somewhere.
At one time, the “Gold” trimmed flag was exclusively used to drape the coffin of a “veteran”, while other important public officials such as non veteran congressmaen etc. had their coffins draped with a “non gold” bordered flag.
Basically since “all presidents” being “Commanders in Chief” of the US Military, would be “Gold Draped” whether they actually served “in the military” or not.
Over a period of time, whether actually “official” or not, the gold border has begun to signify “Military”, being that the gold trimmed frag was originally termed “the US military flag”.
Below is an cut and paste from a website with some information. The URL is included.
http://www.slate.com/id/2080338/
“…It should also be noted that military flag patches are often trimmed with gold borders. This is in imitation of the gold-fringed flag, also known as the U.S. military flag. According to an executive order signed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1959, the gold-fringed flag (and, by extension, patch-sized replicas) are to be used exclusively by the armed forces. That order isn’t always obeyed, however; many federal courtrooms now feature gold-fringed flags, despite the fact that they should only appear during courts-martial.
Best Regards…
A little research about the flag reveled the below information:
Why is the Flag patch “backwards” on Military uniforms?
Following is a quote from the Department of Defense website…
“Thank you for your inquiry about the proper placement of the American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.
Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.
The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.”
We appreciate and share your concern for the respectful display of our American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.”
For more information on Army Regulation 670-1 please visit the following web site, http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf
ALSO on the Gold Fringe:
What do the colors of the Flag mean?
Sentimental writers and orators sometimes ascribe meanings to the colors in the flag. The practice is erroneous, as are statements on this subject attributed to George Washington and other founders of the country.
From the book “Our Flag” published in 1989 by the House of Representatives…
“On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers’ beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:
“The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice.”
Also this from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives…
“The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun.”
The quote below concerning gold fringe on the Flag is from the book “So Proudly We Hail, The History of the United States Flag” Smithsonian Institute Press 1981, by Wiliam R. Furlong and Byron McCandless. “The placing of a fringe on Our Flag is optional with the person of organization, and no Act of Congress or Executive Order either prohibits the practice, according to the Institute of Hearaldry. Fringe is used on indoor flags only, as fringe on flags on outdoor flags would deteriorate rapidly. The fringe on a Flag is considered and ‘honorable enrichment only’, and its official use by the US Army dates from 1895.. A 1925 Attorney General’s Opinion states: ‘the fringe does not appear to be regarded as an integral part of the Flag, and its presence cannot be said to constitute an unauthorized addition to the design prescribed by statute. An external fringe is to be distinguished from letters, words, or emblematic designs printed or superimposed upon the body of the flag itself. Under law, such additions might be open to objection as unauthorized; but the same is not necessarily true of the fringe.’”
The gold trim is generally used on ceremonial indoor flags that are used for special services and is believed to have been first used in a military setting. It has no specific significance that I have ever run across, and its (gold trim) use is in compliance with applicable flag codes and laws.
Web sites for both:
http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html
http://www.usflag.org/colors.html
Further reference:
http://www1.va.gov/opa/feature/celebrate/flagdisp.asp
I agree on the Flag patch display mostly. Put it this way, if you are using a “reverse” flag patch and it isn’t on your right arm it is the wrong patch. I can’t seem to find anything that describes it’s borders though. Most indoor display flags have gold fringe sewn on them.
The back of the vest though is something 127 has taken up. You can have other patches sewn on the back as long as they are below the bottom rocker. Unlike an MC which normally doesn’t allow anything aft of the centerline of the vest except their club colors.
I respect your opinion Al, and think you should configure your vest the way you think it looks “good”. I on the other hand, am one of those who have several patches on the back. All of them are respectful, dealing with my Military affiliation, America, and Patriotism, all constructed around the ALR Eagle backpatch. My vest looked “BAD” to me without the other patches.
I would sincerely hope that other AL Riders would respect “my” opinion concerning “my” vest back design, the same way as I respect theirs.
Considering another thought, a ruling, that forces every ALR member to display his or her backpatch a certain way, with no optional additions, what comes next, no subtractions?
I may be wrong, not having been involved with one, but is this not the exact way the “MC’s” do it?
Are we all not on every hand as ALR’s, not universally trying to avoid any resemblence to MC’s?
Personally, I think there is a much larger protocol problem with ALR vest patches, and it concerns the American Flag display.
Recently while attending an ALR function I got tired of counting the number of American Flags that were incorrectly displayed on the vests.
There is a long since established protocol for display of the flag. It’s a bit distressing to me, to hear brothers object to what I would consider as an “insignificance” concerning the backpatch, when improper “Old Glory” displays on ALR vests are going un-mentioned!
I talked with a couple of the folks involved, and they had no idea that there’s a proper display protocol for the flag. How do you suppose any AL family member would not know that?
Also many of the flag “wearers” are not aware that the “gold” border on the small flags signafies a “Veteran”, while the white border signafies other patriots.
I think if the Dept ALR wants to jump on fixing vest displays, the flag problem should initially be grabbing the comments.
Looking at the new constitution, why wouldn’t it address the “Flag” before a optional “Rocker” patch?
Best Regards…
Sounds like to me in reading these post, we need to come up with a Uniform guidline for our back patch(s) so everyone will be on board. I have seen so many different configurations and clutter with many patchs sewn all over the back, that to me it looks bad. We should decide what patch(s) are allowned on the back of the vest. I know a lot of people have some money tied up in thier vest but I think we need to “clean” it up
email sent 14:21
Best Regards…
JFrank,
Drop me an email real quick please:
taxi@americanlegionriders-127.org
Congrats Wizard on the new position.
Well, I would feel that the each of the Posts have only one vote, since as you said those positions don’t exist now.
I’m glad you don’t agree with everything we at 127 said, that is what spurs discussion and we aren’t married completely to any of our proposed amendments.
congrats wizard as new director
It is becoming more clear with every comment I read hear and others I have seen in emails these past few days that we are jumping the gun to try and vote on these new bylaws at this point. I think we need at least one workshop meeting on it to iron out these differences and reach an agreement on all parts of it. It should, after all, be approved and blessed by those whose actions it will govern and it will be much easier to make the changes now than it will be once it is adopted.
I just took over as ALR director of post 178 and with our elections and planning for an upcoming major fund raising event we really didn’t take time to go over the proposed bylaws in detail. A few issues were discussed but that was about it and we didn’t come to any consensus of opinion on it.
I had some concerns about certain things in the bylaws but it wasn’t until I read post 127′s comments on it in an email that my concerns came into focus. Thanks you guys at post 127 ALR for taking the time to go over it in detail. I don’t agree completely with all of your comments but at least they got my brain in gear on the matter.
As far as who will be voting on the bylaws, according to these bylaws each post ALR has 3 votes; the new position of Post ALR Chairman will have 1 vote, each ALR Director will have 1 vote and each ALR will have 1 member vote. The District ALR Chairman and a few others, DEC members if I remember correctly, will each have a vote.
I’m kind of curious how a document that did not exist before and is being voted on can include text that defines who will vote on it and how does a position created by the document, that did not exist before (Post ALR Chairman), get to vote on it? At least, I’ve never heard of the Post ALR Chairman position before.
Anyway, I will be at the meeting while several of my brothers and sisters head to Cartersville to pay their respects to Cpt. Connor.
That’s sort of along the lines of my thinking buddah. From all the folks that I have communicated with about this new constitution, (I’m not speaking for anyone naturally), Just my own humble opinion, but it seems the vote will be “no”.
I would think in the interest of getting something adopted, I’d put it on the table in front of all the Directors during the Nov. meeting and hash out something acceptable and agreeable to all, and get it passed so that we could move on along.
Again, that’s just a personal opinion, and everybody has one. The Mighty 7th will work with the program whatever it is.
Best Regards…
IF OUR SHERIFF WAS THINKING HE WOULD CALL THE MEETING NEXT WEEK INSTEAD OF THIS WEEKEND THAT WAY YOU HAVE THE DIRECTORS AT THE MEETING AND HELP WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE FISHER HOUSE RUN !!!!
Roger that Taxi! Same here with our post, we only have 36 ALR members here at 167, and as far as pleged, all but a couple who are out of town will attend the Capt. Connor homecomming. Myself, I have been appointed to attend the vote by the director per the memberships wishes.
That is the reason for my questions. The ALR Director on behalf of the members, exec committee, and the post, has instructed me to proxy their vote / votes for 167 in this important election.
The question of credentials is important so that however many votes post 167 has, will be accepted when / if proxied.
I will be riding Sat. morning to the ALR rally point in Cartersville with ALR 167, to meet up with the rest of you brothers and sisters for this most honorable cause.
I have been instructed to leave there for Macon and the vote while “all” the others will carry out the Capt Connor mission.
Perhaps I’l have time to meet y’all there at Belks before I have to go further.
Best Regards…
Ok JFrank, we are on the same page. We do use the short patch that only allows for one line of text at the bottom. It is that text we choose to put “CHARTER MEMBER” or after July 2009 new members will have “MEMBER” there.
I agree that these should have been sent to each of the ALR posts to read, discuss and have workshops with the Department to get the kinks out. They kind of put the cart before the horse.
I received an email stating that it will be the director or the directors delegate who will cast a vote for these bylaws. Didn’t say anythng about documentation of the delegate though.
My question is this, the Department is still trying to push a vote this coming Saturday. How many Directors are going to be there?
As you all know, there is a Georgia native who has been MIA for over 40 years, his remains arrive back in Atlanta tomorrow Friday the 24th. His funeral is Saturday the 25th. Most everybody I’ve been talking to will be attending the funeral, this is going to be an absolutely huge PGR mission.
It is our duty to attend this funeral but the leadership of the Department ALR will not postpone this meeting until November 1st which is when we have our Directors Meeting in Augusta.
The family of Capt. Conner has specifically asked the PGR to have ALL vietnam veterans and American Legion personnel riding up front.
Our duty as the American Legion is to our POW/MIA brothers and veterans above all.
I will not be in Macon Saturday and none of my members will be there either. I also know that nobody from Post 251 will be in attendance either. We are all doing our duty in saluting this American hero this Saturday.
On another note concerning a “sub-topic” hereof; who exactly will be voting on this new constitution and by-laws?
Will it be a Legion vote whereas each posts will cast it’s votes, perhaps by “roll call” whether they have an ALR or not?
Will it be a vote involving only posts that support an ALR group?
Will it be an individual ALR members “present” vote?
Will only ALR officers or exec committee deligates be allowed to vote?
Can proxy votes be placed by deligates, and if so, what credentials will the deligate need to place said votes?
These are all questions posed to me as the 7th Distric ALR chairman, that I am unable to answer.
My constituents as well as others outside the 7th district that I have communicated with, are disappointed that a copy of this dilligent work, was not delivered to each and every post ALR Director, to allow ample time for the post ALR to review and discuss with their membership and post exec committee.
To move from basically a first reading, directly to a vote, in my view seems to doom the new constitution to failure.
I don’t disagree with anything you say there Taxi. Originally you, stated basically that wearing a “Veteran” rocker was “wrong”. That’s what we at 167 disagree with. Post 167 does not have any resentment problems between our members, like some other posts may have, regardless of which family member group they belong to.
We have discussed this new constitution both with the Post exec., and the ALR exec. committees. None of us can find any problem with the rockers, in either the 167 version, or as well, the way 127 views it.
We think forcing any post to “change” patches is simply “silly” and a waste of resources.
We unanamously think our post and your post has the “RIGHT” to look at that, and portray their affiliations at their own choosing.
One other thing that we have noticed is that many posts purchased the “short” patch that does not have room for the 3 lines of additional text, therefore needing a lower rocker to identify the post, city and state as yours is.
We on the other hand purchased the longer patch with the additional upper lines of text integrated with the original basic copywrighted design which does display that information, leaving an empty area on the bottom to ride the family group rocker.
Again, we think that each ALR should have the right to make their own decisions on that.
167 will vote for your rights as well as our own.
By the way, our Breast patch has “Buford Post 127″ embroidered on it and the back patch until July of next year has “Charter Member” embroidered on it. After July of next year the back patch will only have “Member” embroidered on it.
Buford only has one level of membership and that is member. We wear nothing that designates which Legion family you belong to. We do not do Honorary Member or Junior Member either, just member.
JFrank, I am not sure how large your post is, but it has been my experience with posts all over this country that some Legionnaires look down on the SAL and Auxiliary for what ever reason. Those same Legionnaires look at them as less than equals. Some think the SAL is nothing but work horses and the Auxiliary is nothing more than meal makers.
I will tell you what, if it wasn’t for the SAL and Auxiliary the Legion would have fallen flat on its face long, long ago. The Legion can’t survive without them.
In the beginning the ALR offered a post a program whereas Legionnaires, Auxiliary and SAL could come together as equals. It was the only thing the Legion offered that afforded that opportunity.
Then they first came out with the requirement that the Director had to be a Legionnaire and there is absolutely no good reason for that decision, none whatsoever. The first excuse I heard was that the Director has to be able to go to floor meetings of the Legion. That is bull, the SAL Commanders go all the time. You simply go as guests, state your business and leave.
Now, they want to state that the Director, Asst. Director and Treasurer has to be Legionnaires. That is absolutely ridiculous. What is next, all elected officers have to be Legionnaires? The reason given to me was because we deal with funds, all of a sudden going to floor meetings wasn’t a consideration. Well here again, so does the SAL deal with funds and their leadership aren’t Legionnaires, right? The SAL is a program of the Legion as is the ALR, why treating us different.
Now, they want us to go through the trouble and expense of changing all of the rockers to further segregate us. So, SAL and Auxiliary can never lead, they can only be members. Why would the SAL or Auxiliary want to join us? What would be in it for them? Why would anybody ever want to join an organization that they know going into that they can never have a chance to lead if so desired?
I think it should go back to the way it was as first conceived. An organization that encompassed the entire legion family as one equal entity.
I further think that this whole deal should be left up to the post and the post ALR to decide. It should be their decision if they want their ALR to be a strictly Legion run outfit or if they want it to be the all encompassing outfit it was originally designed to be in the beginning.
I can tell you right now, I lost one SAL member because of the director requirement. I will loose a majority of my very active SAL members if we are forced to segregate ourselves and restrict their level of participation by changing the rocker and restricting the offices they can hold.
By the way, just so you know, I am a Legionnaire not an SAL member. I don’t like how the Legion treats the SAL and Auxiliary most of the time and it embarrasses me.
The hardest job in the Military is that of the military wife and family and we should never ever forget that.
Quote:
“Also, I state again the bottom rocker can not state “Veteran”, “Auxiliary” or
“Squadron”. That is separating us out into classes of membership”.
We here in Chatsworth Post 167 do wear the lower “rockers” as the new constitution provides for. We have seen all over the country other groups doing the same. We have also seen many groups rocking like “Buford”.
Our thoughts on this are not that a “Veteran” or perhaps “Squadron” rocker separates us into so called “Classes”, but rather allows each ALR Member to indicate by which “Honorable” American Legion Family Group that we associate with, and through which group we joined the ALR.
Each or our members a very proud to wear “Veteran”, “Auxiliary”, or “Squadron” as our rocker. Our ALR patch actually has “Chatsworth Post 167″ embrordried in the background with the ALR Eagle.
Ya’ll are making my panties bunch
Go Taxi Go!!
I know MC Protocols, lived with the MC World my entire life. My much older brother was a 1%er in Detroit.
I live outside of Atlanta and as you know Atlanta is the home of the Outlaw’s National Headquarters. We have to get along with them.
When all of this patch crap started up it got all very confusing because nobody ever sat down with the COC or the Outlaw’s to find out exactly what was what. The ALR just popped up out of nowhere and started wearing patches without the courtesy of an introduction of ourselves to the COC or dominant.
When we started ALR 127 we did exactly that, we went to the National President and introduced ourselves and asked their advice. The response we received from the National President was absolute. He said No three piece patches, period. We can have the top rocker and main patch or we can have the bottom rocker and main patch. They have personally seen the Buford and Duluth patch configuration complete with wording and they said that was perfect. The National President also said that this subject is closed to further discussion, he will not discuss this any further.
Our patch configuration isn’t claiming territory at all. It identifies the rider with his/her post. If the bottom rocker just said GEORGIA or BUFORD then that would be a territory claiming patch. Ours isn’t, it is a patch that identifies the post we belong.
By the way, the ALR’s on this side of the state have never had any problems with the Outlaws, Hells Angels, North Georgia Twins, Wingman, US Military Vets etc… 127 and 251 know the protocols thank you very much.
The way that I feel is one thing but the world that we have to deal with is quite another. In an effort to foster understanding I would strongly recommend that all ALR members read with an open mind and then understand the M/C protocols. I personally don’t care for it but I also have come to realize what the realities are. They can have very severe consequences especially when you are away from home. I guess that it just makes sense to me to avoid any of these type issues. We must remember that in the M/C world yes we are a part of it weather you like it or not, one person’s actions reflect on the entire group. The protocols can be found on the first page of this website. Follow the link:
PROTOCOL BASICS IN THE M/C
WORLD LINK
I do have an idea. This new constitution and bylaws is like putting the tooth paste back into the tube.
Let each of the chapters decide for themselves if they want to adopt these as approved by the Macon meeting. Make it mandatory for new chapters to abide by these new documents. I guess sort of like grand fathering existing chapters.
There is one point though I will never agree with, grand fathered or new is the bottom rocker. The words Veteran”, “Auxiliary” or “Squadron” cannot be put on them because it breaks us out into classes or levels of membership. It must state City, State and Post Number or at least State and Post Number in the event the city name is too long.
The other thing in the constitution that puzzles me is this. What exactly is the ALR Program Chairman. I’m the director and a legionnaire, the Posts Executive Committee and the Post Commander hold me personally responsible for the ALR. I am the “official” liaison between the ALR and our Exec. Committee, Post Membership and the Commander.
It sounds to me as though the ALR Department is trying to dictate to a Post that they need to appoint a member to be a chairman of a program.
Let me get my beer and popcorn so I can watch what happens when you tell Bufords Commander how to run his post.
Well, here I disagree on a some points. Sheriff clarified some points and I thank him.
The ones I’m not clear on is the officer requirement of being a Legionnaire. There was an incident at one post were all of the top officers of the post resigned and the Sgt. At Arms was catapulted into the Directorship. So by your reasoning the Sgt. At Arms does not have to be a legionnaire, so were would that have left us.
Also, I state again the bottom rocker can not state “Veteran”, “Auxiliary” or
“Squadron”. That is separating us out into classes of membership. If a chapter so desires to use a bottom rocker like Duluth and Buford does then the rocker should state City, State and Post Number, or at least it should have State and Post Number in case your post is in a city with a really long name. Ours will read “BUFORD GEORGIA POST 127″, Duluths reads “DULUTH GEORGIA POST 251″
As far as bylaws goes I would think that since there is a national constitution that it governs us. Somebody on the national level, probably the founders of ALR took the time to think through how they wanted the ALR to run and wrote a set of By Laws. They placed these by laws out there for all to see and read and stated to use these bylaws as a template for your own.
Basically what I am saying, is if we are forced to adopted these department bylaws as written it will force Buford to completely reorganize, again. I will loose most of my members. We took a lot of time organizing this chapter and doing stuff correctly. Our post is completely happy with the way we are organized and the Commander has approved of all of our officers. The post is not requiring us to be bonded and as long as the post isn’t requiring it then the department shouldn’t worry about it.
Q: Does our Post ALR have to wear a rocker?
A: No. There are no “top rocker” configurations authorized for wear. If desired by the Post ALR, the following “lower rocker” configurations may be worn with the back patch: “Veteran”, or “Auxiliary”, or “Squadron”, or “Junior”. There are no other “lower rocker” configurations authorized for wear.
I totally agree buddha I would personally support the “no rocker” at all approach for the reasons specified in the m/c protocol. (Can be viewed through a link on the first page of the website.) We are all members.
If the Director were unable to complete his or her term the Asst. Director would have to replace them.
All American Legion Monies must be administered by a legionnaire for liability purposes. While SAL and Aux. members may join the ALR the ALR remains a program of the American Legion.
I UNDERSTAND ABOUT ABUNCH OF THE BYLAWS AND AGREE BUT A COUPLE OF THEM I DONT
1. IF YOU ARE AN ALR MEMBER THAN U ARE A ALR MEMBER NOT VETERAN AUX. OR SQUARDON YOU ALL ARE THE SAME YES NO?
2. I KNOW THAT DIRECTOR HAS TO BE A VETERAN OK BUT WHY ASST DIRECTOR OR TREASURE
Q: Does 50% of charity revenues raised by the ALR have to go to the Post, District, Department or National organizations?
A: No. We are a Veterans Service Organization and the Department expects our focus to be on Veterans or Veteran (and/or their families) related causes in our community, state or nation. So during the Legion year, no more than 50% of all ALR benevolent revenues raised should go towards NON Veterans related causes. The ALR does not have to raise any charity revenues, but if it does, at least half the focus should be towards some Veteran related programs or projects endorsed at the Post level or higher.
Q: Do we have to send financial reports to the District and Department?
A: No. But the Post ALR shall provide a monthly financial report and minutes to the sponsoring Post ALR Chairman, Executive Committee and General Membership. The sponsoring Post is required to keep a copy for its records.
Q: Is there a National ALR Constitution?
A: No. There is a National suggested template for Departments. However it is up to each Department to develop its own rules, regulations, policies, oversight and control for its own ALR Program.
We began on our journey here in Georgia when the first Post ALR was chartered on 11 September 2004. But since its conception in Michigan, in 1993, the ALR has seen tremendous growth at the State and National levels. In a response to formalize the ALR, the National Executive Committee on October 17-18, 2007 passed Resolution No. 35 establishing the American Legion Riders as a National Program of The American Legion. With the ALR now an official Legion Program, the Department of Georgia is obligated to provide oversight and control thereof. Hence a Constitution & By-Laws of The American Legion Riders of Georgia has been made available and proposed for adoption at the Department Fall Conference on 25 October 2008.
I will try to answer all your questions or provide clarity to them with the best of my ability as they pertain to the proposed Constitution & By-Laws.
I think that it is important to remember that this is a starting point. We all must start somewhere. This just points up the importance of the Macon conference This is, after all… Why we vote.
FIRST OFF I’VE BEEN IN THE ALR A WHILE AND THESE BYLAWS THE WAY THEY ARE WRITTEN STINK. IF NATIONAL DOESN’T REQUIRE IT WHY IS GEORGIA ALL OF A SUDDEN THINKS ITS OK TO HAVE A “VETERAN” AS ASST DIRECTOR OR FINANCE AND LIKE TAXI SAID IVE BEEN WITH A COUPLE OF ALRS THIS PAST COUPLE OF YEARS AND WHETHER YOUR A VETERAN OR NOT YOU ALL PUT YOUR VEST ON AS ALR MEMBERS NOT TO SEPARATE YOURSELF. I QUESS WE WAIT AND SEE WHATS HAPPENS.
While I personally agree with Taxi there are a couple of things that come to mind. All come from The American Legion Resolution 35 which you can link to from page 1 of the website.
8. No use of rockers with the ALR patch because touching the patch violates trademark laws of the ALR patch. I think that this is confusing. It states “No use of rockers with the ALR patch”. But it becomes vague when it goes on to say that it is because of trademark issues.
RESOLVED, That American Legion Rider groups shall abide by The American Legion Constitution and By-laws as well as the established Post and Department directives. So who has the final authority? I would assume that if the post has it, they would still have to abide by department rules.
Only Legionnaires (Veterans) may hold the office of Post ALR Director, Assistant Director, or Treasurer, and they shall be surety bonded. There is no such stipulation requiring these post holders be Legionnaires at the National level only that they be a qualified member, so this would be something that the Dept. of Georgia would require.
On the subject of finances, I must have missed something because I can’t find anything in the Georgia Constitution and By-Laws that requires any monies or records for that matter to leave the sponsoring post, only that the ALR must make an accounting to their sponsoring post. (Below)
Section 5. The Post ALR shall provide a monthly financial report and minutes to the sponsoring Post ALR program Chairman, Executive Committee and general membership.
I have been reading the “new” bylaws. It is a some what decent start. Needs a lot of work though. There are a lot of items in there that will be unacceptable if adopted.
Like I have said, there are many issues that will need to be addressed. But I will give just two examples here.
1. Finance reports will not leave Buford Post 127. The ALR will answer to nobody outside of Buford Post 127 Finance Officer. Our money belongs to the our Legion as does ALL of the money all of the the other posts may have in there accounts, that money belongs to sponsoring post.
2. Here comes the dead horse again. This is a multipart thing:
A. An ALR member is an ALR member, period. There isn’t supposed to be any differentiating between Legion, Aux, SAL. You only have to belong to one or the other to belong to the ALR. Read the Nationals Website.
B. Post 127 will not be changing our bottom rockers, ever, period. We will not be using VETERAN, AUXILIARY, SQUADRON. There will be none of that nonsense at Buford. The Buford bottom rocker will state “BUFORD GEORGIA POST 127″
Like I said, I can sit here and pick apart these bylaws and such but I will wait until the 24th and 25th in Macon.